And I'm so sick and tired of people who AREN'T anti-Semitic getting labeled that way because they have genuine grievances and problems with some of Israel's policies.


I agree with this, but it goes the other way too.
Well, at least you and i agree on the part about the UN.

And like I mentioned twice, I was just making a point about people finding loopholed ways to say things - not saying you or anyone here was doing it, but stressing a point of the world at large. Anyhoo, I'm glad we can agree that the UN has many flaws that need to be worked out, so that it can be a serious and productive tool in global peace.
Agreement is a good way to end this debate. =)

Zionism IS a form of racism. Against Arabs. Zionism is also a form of ethnic cleansing. Against Arabs. Zionism is also the belief that the Jews "own" the Middle East. I'm not good on my bible geography, but I believe that Zionists want the entire Davidian "empire" to be "returned" to Israel. A form of manifest destiny, if you will.
Anyone who believes otherwise also believes in the tooth fairy.
Not all Israelis believe in that but enough do and there are enough fellow travelers to keep Israel's government to the far right. Of course, there's lots of help from Arab suicide bombers and fireworks shooters too.

As far as I'm concerned, both Obama's and McCain's belief that they had to "vet" themselves before AIPAC is disgusting.
And I loved that comment on 51 states Cou .... maybe Lieberman could represent the 51st state if he every loses Connecticut. Oh. wait. That's who he's representing right now.

Thanks, glad someone appreciated it.
I first got the idea that Israel might be our 51st state when, during the 2006 Israel-Lebanon War, Democrat Mark Green told a crowd in New York that “They (Israeli soldiers) are our soldiers also, they are our sons also.”
While I realize that some of the soldiers in the IDF are Jews who came from America, as far as I’m concerned, even if you’re an American citizen, if you choose to serve in a foreign army, you are not in the US Military and thus are not “our” soldier. You are someone else’s.
For those of you who are interested in the topic at hand, here is a good article explaining why Israel has such a strong hold on both political parties. And no, it doesn’t come from David Duke’s website. It is from the Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs.
http://www.jcpa.o.../vp446.htm

Looks like I missed all the fun on this one. But I have to add a laugh about the "sexism" Palin is experiencing. To some degree it is valid, in the sense that it is embedded into our structures and language, but in a special fashion it is laughable. When is the last time you saw "Iron my Shirts!" signs at a Palin rally? Never?

The thought problems that ask what would the Reps say if Palin was on their opponents ticket are useful here. In some respects, Palin out Bushes, old W himself. Pretty funny. She is even better at delusional denial than he is. I don't think that it is going to fly in these days of U-tube. But I guess we'll all find out soon enough.

Oldfart, you are so blind. Do you even understand what Zionism means, or are you too busy drinking the far left wing Kool Aid? Zionism is the belief that Jews have a right to return to their ancestral homeland. There is NOTHING about Arabs in that. The Palestinians got themselves into this current mess back in 1948. Told by their leaders that in the 1948 war, all the Jews would be murdered and their property would fall to the local Arabs, the "Palestinians" gleefully left, expecting their neighbors' property to become theirs. How ironic then, that the warring nations failed. And did any of the "brethren" Arab-dominated states welcome their "Palestinian" brethren? Absolutely not. They had instructed them to leave, then left them high and dry. But no one talks about that, because it would demolish this completely untrue and frankly, naive, myth of pan-Arab peace and brotherhood throughout the Middle East. To assume that all Arab nations are composed of the "same" "brothers" is also pretty racist - that's like saying that all Western nations get along because they're all "white" - give me a break.

The "Zionism is racism" crap was a horrible myth started by former terrorist Yassir Arafat, in one of his early quests to secure legitimacy at the U.N. In one of the his greatest successes at pulling the wool over the eyes of the U.N. leadership, he somehow became a recognized entity, with greater power at the U.N. than Israel. His whole "racism" slogan was an ill-conceived attempt to defame his neighbor, and sadly, worked because so many of the nations at the U.N. are in the pockets of third world nations (and by third world I refer to countries where the populace is NOT given freedoms, where woman are treated about as well as dogs, IF that well) that produce oil and keep their suffering populations from overthrowing them, only by uniting them in a fierce and crude hatred against a common "enemy," the Jews of Israel. And that is why countries like Egypt are still pushing horrible racist works, and recently, on state television, made a new production of "The Elders of Zion." Real nice leadership.

Heh - and, just WHO do you suppose was occupying those "homelands" they had deserted for 3000 years? Zionism started out LOOKING for a Jewish homeland and the British gave them Palestine. So much for that. Ever since, Zionism has been warping into a new form of super race machismo whose destiny is the entire middle east and to hell with the Arabs - steal their property, bulldoze their houses and farms, make them second class citizens and eliminate those who won't submit. Almost like a story out of the bible, eh? Raze the buildings and salt the land.

Well, the occupation of Israel is a fait accompli with most of us supporting it but now we pay the price. We have an unsolvable problem in the Middle East that will never end until the last Jew or the last Arab is dead. A nuke on both their houses I say!

Susie, there is one element that Oldfart has kindly left out, and you have also neglected to mention, and that is the Jewish belief that god GAVE them that land, and it is therefore, their's for the taking, regardless of current ownership. That belief is a religious fiction, and is at the basic level of causes for strife there.

If you don't believe that Jews are racist, you should read the Jewish version of the bible, in the original Hebrew. It is chock full of commandments that favor the Hebrew race, and, well, you remember the ten commandments? Those commandments against murder? Scholars say that the language used means pretty much that it only applies to killing other Jews. Same thing with slavery, if you read the verses. Jewish slaves could only be held for seven years. Others? No limit.

Their holy book is so full of stories about how god commanded them to invade that land, kill the inhabitants and enslave the virgin girls that it no wonder that the modern Jews think that it is their right to simply inhabit the land they conquered in 67 and to hell with the former owners! Do ya think that any of this endeared them to their neighbors? Not likely.

Does this mean that this situation is the Jews fault? No, not entirely, of course. The Arabs have their own religious fictions that they adhere to that lionize the Jews, and none of that is helpful in solving the riddle, either.

Bottom line - both sides need to let go of some sacred stories and sit back and realize that they are stuck with each other as neighbors. If they don't learn to act like good ones, life will continue to be rife with violence and hatred.

This country has, for too long, allowed our friendship with Israel to rule our actions, internationally. I agree with you that we need a friendly ally in that region, but this country has NEVER allowed other allies to dictate our policy, so why do we allow Israel to do it? Israel has taken actions and decisions that have repeatedly put this country at risk and in embarrassing situations, and we have rarely put our collective foot down to make them sit back and be reasonable.

it is time we took back our national sovereignty in the Middle East, and stopped letting religion, either ours or others', to dictate policy. That is, and has always been, insanity.

Israel has also killed American servicemen under disputed circumstances (the USS Liberty Incident), planted bombs in American facilities in Egypt (the Lavon Affair), and they continue to honor Jonathan Jay Pollard, an American who broke the law by giving sensitive intel docs to the Israeli Government, who, it is said, gave some of them to the Soviet Union in exchange for loosened immigration restrictions for Soviet Jews. They have even gone so far as to use peace negotiations in order to try to pressure US Presidents into releasing him. And members of AIPAC were put on trial a few years ago for committing espionage on behalf of Israel.

One could argue about Palin's lack of experience. I don't. Palin has all kinds of experience, and from her experience we can deduce a lot about what kind of person, and what kind of political leader she is. She is an opportunistic liar, she does not respect the core principles of the Constitution,
she has no compunction for tearing apart an opponents' character with lies and innuendo if it suits her ambitions, she does not concern herself with what happens to people accused of terror who may be innocent, and her heart is filled with hateful scorn for people who may think differently from her, and she speaks of such people as potential threats to the nation, referring to camps of Americans with broad brushes - there are good, pro-America people according to Palin. That must mean that she believes that there are anti-American bad people.

And, as sometimes happens, this turned into an article sized argument, and will post the rest of my thoughts to Opinion.