Joan1234 wrote:
Neither one of us can show proof either way.
That's what debate is about. You are the one claiming that the world was created by a supernatural being that you worship, and you want me and everybody else to believe in him too.
Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary proof. The proof is up to you and your Christian bretheren to show he does exist, not up to me to prove he doesn't.
Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body!! But rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, Glenmorangie in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming: "WOO HOO what a ride!"
You know you really do take yourself too seriously. I see you believe I am trying to convert you. I was unaware of that. I will say that I have stated my beliefs, but wanting you and everyone else to believe in him too? Where in anything I wrote can you point to my efforts at conversion? I dont remember. Please go and find these posts so I can reread them.
What I do have to tell you is that I do not care if you believe in God or the Tooth Fairy. I will no longer discuss this subject with you.
I also know that this will bring you to accuse me of running from you. I also dont care about that, so have at it.
I hope you have not allowed rwahrens to tire you out with his endless postings on his disbeliefs.
You have a way with words and I hope we will see more of you in here.
"...know that this will bring you to accuse me of running from you. "
No, I won't.
Your reaction, like chocobear at not showing up to post again, is typical of folks that cannot answer criticism, either because they do not know what to say, or because they simply are unable to fathom that their treasured beliefs may have faults.
You aren't running from me, but from yourself. It shows in your bitter tone.
Typical also, is your final attack on me. You cannot answer my criticisms, so you attack the critic. It's called an ad hominim attack, and is well known as a logical fallacy, and a last resort of the failed debater.
So go ahead, commiserate among yourselves at the poor arrogant unbeliever who doesn't know when to shut up because you've already told him the truth. (talk about arrogant!)
In the meantime, I'll go find someone that has the courage of their convictions enough to be able to have a real discussion without running from themselves.
Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body!! But rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, Glenmorangie in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming: "WOO HOO what a ride!"
Whoa!
rwahrens. I haven't been posting either, and I started this thread. I haven't read all the way through, and I certainly hope no one has flamed me for anything.
Just because someone doesn't post, doesn't mean they are running. That could be one of several reasons. Other reasons could be viruses on a computer, a busy life, or that they have nothing left to say and do not wish to argue or debate or they have had their say and want to leave it at that, or they wish to discontinue their visits to such message boards, or topics. I am sure there are other reasons I could have listed, but that's a pretty detailed list as it is.
As many message boards as I have been on in the past, I find it rather amusing that I still see people who believe a silence of any time period is "running."
I don't remember where I started with my personal walk when I started this thread, and I am too lazy to go back and read up on it. I am sure I have stated somewhere along the lines that I am agnostic and am in no hurry to get involved again in a church. I've had my dealings, and my reason for staying agnostic is because whatever god, gods, God, or goddesses there might be, living, dead, resurrected, or made-up, have nothing to do with me and my life. Everything I have earned for myself had been just that. Earned by ME. I have heard first-hand stories of the hand of God working miracles. To be honest, I don't care. And unless I see something for myself that works for me - I don't care. This may be a harsh statement, but I am tired of seeing so many other believers so far ahead of me that I would never be able to catch up to their lvl of faith. Not that I am required to. But I have not seen anything that has shown me that anything outside of myself truly cares for me.
Maybe I'm babbling, but I am becoming stronger in my personal beliefs than I have been in the past. I don't need proof, and I don't want people to prove anything to me. I make my own way in life - with or without religion and with or without my family (which sucks anyways).
Elizabeth Dierlam www.myspace.com/e... www.comfortsuites...
But in my experience, in a thread like this one, where at least two people take the Christian side in a discussion (or debate, whichever you want to call it), there is often a typical progression of events. To make a long story short, once they run out of their canned answers, the ad hominem attacks begin, and the thread ends without any kind of attempt of their part to be gracious at all. In fact, the manner in which Joan left is pretty typical. Abrupt, insulting and with a refusal to debate further. I have yet to see a single instance of a theist of any stripe make any concessions, or even end a debate on an equal basis, with any kind of statement to say "it was a stimulating debate", or thanks for the lively discussion.
I have noted here before that I will meet religious intolerance head on, and that is what I did with chocobear. She exhibited what I consider a badly intolerant attitude with her statement about being "offended" by any suggestion that there just might be another way to heaven than her chosen magic road. Joan didn't like it, but could not, or would not, add anything of substance to the conversation but snide side comments about my attitude.
When confronted, she basically just caved and left in a huff.
Sorry, but I cannot respect anyone that cannot leave a debate on better terms.
I respectfully asked chocobear for additional information about her stance on a point. I was not confrontational about that question, and there was no reason for her to leave abruptly either.
Granted, she could have left for any of the reasons you mentioned. But a decent poster will at least go back and try to keep from leaving things hanging.
<shrug> At least I try to be civil about it. Even if I don't always succeed.
Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body!! But rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, Glenmorangie in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming: "WOO HOO what a ride!"
I have been enjoying reading in here, now I would like to ask, based on certain postings, how have you faced religious intolerance? Seems to me Chocobear tried to explain how very important her beliefs were. How she felt when she sees many in here trying to tear down her Christianity.
Joan on the other hand asked how she was trying to convert you. I think I saw you running from the room on that one.
I have been enjoying reading in here, now I would like to ask, based on certain postings, how have you faced religious intolerance?
I'm not sure what you mean "faced" religious intolerance? But...
Seems to me Chocobear tried to explain how very important her beliefs were. How she felt when she sees many in here trying to tear down her Christianity.
Seemed to me she just made a statement that she was "offended" by the suggestion by others that there might be another way to heaven. Her words.
Any religion that preaches that Jesus is not the only way to get into heaven offends me, since I'm a born-again Christian.
I'm sorry, that is NOT a reaction to someone "trying to tear down her Christianity." It is a direct statement of intolerance. No other way for me to describe it. To me, that is a red flag. Sorry if you don't like it!
Joan on the other hand asked how she was trying to convert you. I think I saw you running from the room on that one.
Just how did I "run from the room"? She Posted on 11/09/2007 12:08, and I Posted on 11/09/2007 12:35. I saw no reason to answer her question. The New Testament charges every Christian with spreading the News, doesn't it? I've never met a Christian that wasn't glad to convert the heathen.
I will no longer discuss this subject with you.
She was the one that left.
On 11-06 at 08:59, I asked Chocobear:
"But, please, go back to the beginning of this post and explain things to me a bit better, I really want to understand where you are coming from."
To date, she has not seen fit to answer my questions. And I was really looking forward to hearing her answer. We had made some progress in actually trading views when Joan came by and interrupted our discussion. Chocobear hasn't been back, regrettably.
I'm glad you enjoyed yourself, but you really must learn a bit of reading comprehension.
Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body!! But rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, Glenmorangie in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming: "WOO HOO what a ride!"
lisagee123 wrote:
Faith in God sees the invisible,
Believes the incredible,
and recieves the impossible.
Ask and you shall recieve. He can open your eyes if you sincerely ask Him too.
Take it from there and you will find the way, the truth and the life.
Yes it is that simple!
Try it and see for yourself.
lisagee123 wrote:
Faith in God sees the invisible,
Believes the incredible,
and recieves the impossible.
Ask and you shall recieve. He can open your eyes if you sincerely ask Him too.
Take it from there and you will find the way, the truth and the life.
Yes it is that simple!
Try it and see for yourself.
Ditto!
Sorry, but I see faith as simply believing in the unbelievable in spite of a lack of evidence. I was a christian for years, and saw no answers to prayer that was any different from random chance.
After years of drifting away based upon that and the hypocracy I have seen that is almost indemic within christianity, I finally read a book, "Misquoting Jesus: The Story Behind Who Changed the Bible and Why" By Bart D. Ehrman, that made me realize that the very foundation of that religion is based upon the shifting sands of human imagination and dishonesty.
Sorry, tried it and didn't like it!
Edited by rwahrens on 01/29/2008 11:14
Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body!! But rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, Glenmorangie in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming: "WOO HOO what a ride!"
deesbree wrote:
[quote]lisagee123 wrote:
Faith in God sees the invisible,
Believes the incredible,
and recieves the impossible.
Ask and you shall recieve. He can open your eyes if you sincerely ask Him too.
Take it from there and you will find the way, the truth and the life.
Yes it is that simple!
Try it and see for yourself.
Ditto!
Damn.. I'm so late on this convo!
Lisa - Awesome!
Hebrews 11:1 Faith in being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we cannot see! Irishgirl
In my opinion, tradtional religion is the cause of most problematic issues around the world.
Religion, in the sense of traditional practice, inherently DIVIDES people instead of uniting them.
I am someone who considers themself SPIRITUAL and NOT religious.
I believe in a higher power; however, I DO NOT believe that "my" higher power approves of how people over time have virtually mutillated the notion of love, compassion, forgiveness and tolerance via the word "Religion."
It's actually quite pathetic how people dupe themselves, and every one else, by invoking the term "religion" to justify just about everything!
While I am personally an atheist, I applaud your practical point of view. At least you are not just blindly taking someone else's word for something, and are using your own head!
Hope to see you in the news discussions!
Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body!! But rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, Glenmorangie in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming: "WOO HOO what a ride!"
I, think it vary person to person. If you're an informed person then you'll never get hurt with anything. I, would suggest that all religions should be respected on equal ground.
Yes, it does bother me when people talk about religion without being informed. But religions never offend me because of their practice. People can worship any religion they want. http://wwwfunnyma...gspot.com/ http://www.heroes...
I, think it vary person to person. If you're an informed person then you'll never get hurt with anything. I, would suggest that all religions should be respected on equal ground.
In normal matters - politics, science, business, or what-have-you - if someone promotes an idea or theory that makes no sense, or has issues, or is debatable, people will rip them apart. Debate is seen as normal, healthy, and the proper way to settle disagreements.
Yet, when we use the word religion, all discussion is expected to stop. We have to "respect" the whole thing, as if it were true, no matter how ridiculous it may be.
Scientology was invented out of whole cloth by L. Ron Hubbard on a bet! Robert Heinlein wrote a book about using the invention of a religion as a way to foil an alien invasion! Both were premised upon the idiotic idea people have that if it is a religion, it is inviolable and cannot be questioned!
Religion is superstition, pure and simple. Every Christian will tell you that, in relation to all other religions, but to suggest that their own may also be based upon pure superstition is to invite anger and vitriolic defense.
Robert Heinlein had one of his characters say that, "One man's religion is another man's belly laugh!"
Truer words were never uttered!
Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body!! But rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, Glenmorangie in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming: "WOO HOO what a ride!"
I agree that imposing religion on anyone is offensive. i think that people should be able to practice whatever religion they want, as long as it does not adversely impact the lives of others. An example of adverse impact would be religious killings or holy wars.
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